Married and Navigating Jewish Life

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Sad story for an KJ escape…what’s sadder is the entire context of the article

with 10 comments

Here is the link to the article.article.

The story is about a woman who escaped KJ with her daughter but then had her kidnapped back but because they weren’t divorced yet all of those parental right issues had yet to be played out. The woman went straight from being Satmar to being, what looks like in her pictures, to not being religious at all.

While our heart goes out to this woman who feels she has been emotionally abused by the KJ and all its antics, we don’t feel 100% sorry for her because she decided to just turn away from Hashem completely and also allow an article which seems to, according to our opinion, demean what the laws of nidda are between Husband and Wife as well as put down religious Jews in general. Because unfortunately Goyim don’t see a difference between religious Jews, heck even secular Jews don’t see the different. All they see is that we are all alike.

We hope she gets her daughter back, but we also hope that before that she learns that being religious doesn’t mean you need to be inside a cult like atmosphere.


Written by frombrooklyn

July 17, 2008 at 11:39 PM

10 Responses

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  1. why should she get her daughter back? all she does is corrupt and confuse her. Not to say that there is no Ones on the husband, but she is is drug abusing, self hating, stupid young girl who doesn’t understand the ramifications of her actions. The chilul Hashem that she caused is irrevocable.


    July 18, 2008 at 5:53 PM

  2. Drug Abuser? Using a little pot a few months back doesn’t make someone a drug abuser. Heck, pot actually is in the same category as alchohol consumption. And where do you get that she is self hating?

    Don’t pile on the hate without backing yourself up from actually quotes from the article. Just because she chooses to not be religious anymore doesn’t make her a bad person at all, nor does it take away from the fact that she should be allowed to have her child.

    Truthfully, I’d rather the child be with the irreligious parent than be brainwashed to follow a cult. At least then the child might have a choice to be religious later on, but the child but not have a choice in being able to leave and not be emotionally abused if she is with her father.

    I would just hope that maybe having her daughter back might make the mother remember that religious Jews aren’t all bad and she’ll come back to being at least modern orthodox which is perfectly kosher.


    July 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM

  3. […] Comments (RSS) « Sad story for an KJ escape…what’s sadder is the entire context of the article […]

  4. Calling KJ a cult is a gross misstatement. It is a tightly-knit community in a free world, albeit highly-observant and Chassidic. There is no mandatory “cult-like” structure. No one has to live there. She had every right and opportunity to leave, which she did.


    July 20, 2008 at 3:58 AM

  5. What is a Cult?

    “A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community.” (West & Langone, 1986)

    What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult?
    – Authoritarian in their power structure
    – Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members
    – Pyramidal structure
    – Uses thought reform techniques
    – Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society
    – Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising
    – Promotes dependence of the members on the group
    – Totalitarian in their world view
    – Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking
    – Appear exclusive and innovative
    – Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life
    – Controls the flow of information
    – Instills a fear of leaving the group.

    It would seem that Kiryas Joel does fit the broad definition of what a cult is. Once you are in there you must follow what they say. You are subject to their Tznius Police. You cannot know about the outside world. Women are 100% subservient and not given any freedoms that are even allowed in the Torah (forced marriages goes against a basic right of a woman from the Torah and do not kid yourself that they are not forced marriages the women there do not have any ability to say no to those arranged marriages). You have to listen to what the Leader says as well as his handpicked Lts, if you leave you are completely shunned and no wants anything to do with you (the only reason why she was probably allowed back to KJ is because if they dont abide by the secular law in this case then they’ll have child services breaking into the town to take the daughter), and the list goes on about how Kiryas Joel works.

    Is it everyone there? No, it isn’t. However the people in charge are exactly like that. If their Rebbe was really a Tzadik then where is his love of a fellow Jew? Where is the town’s ability to follow local governmental laws that they have flaunted and tried to ignore for so long? Where are the real police there? Where are the open elections?

    Jews need to treat other Jews with respect, putting aside the fact that we are in Golus and need to remember that we do need to treat the Goyim with respect as well.


    July 20, 2008 at 5:38 AM

  6. The chilul Hashem that she caused is irrevocable.

    Sure, no one else was involved in this. It must be her fault. Oh brother.


    July 21, 2008 at 2:02 AM

  7. How can you read this article and not see that it’s completely biased? I’m sorry but I can’t feel bad for her. The reporter is a perverted 60 year man talking about her hot body. She posed in pictures half-naked with her child.

    As for pot, it’s not the same thing as alcohol. Liquor you can buy in the store. Weed, last time I checked, is not available in your local supermarket. It’s obvious that you did not grow up in the hood. I have seen non-Jewish girls lose their children behind smoking a joint. If she was a black girl would you have shown as much sympathy?

    Shame on her for being so thoughtless. She handed her daughter over to her ex-hubby on a silver platter.

    Shame on the reporter for being a predator who took advantage of her idiocy!

    There is a big difference between fighting for your rights and shooting yourself in the foot… I can understand that she snapped. I feel so bad for her daughter more than anything else.


    July 23, 2008 at 9:24 AM

  8. Don’t see it as being completely biased. Also, having done a little pot months ago and having stopped doesn’t make you a drug addict. If you are going to harp about her inability to keep her children because she smoked and stopped I’ll harp about all the Boro Park men who smell of pot when I walk past them who seem to be keeping their wives and children. Or the Rabbis who sell it. Or the Rabbis who cover up the drug abuse in the community. Anyways, back to topic.

    She is dressed the way she wishes. While she isn’t dressed like a religious woman she is copying what goyim wears. This is what KJ pushed her to. Hashem gave her this challenge and she couldn’t handle it, which is sad. Of course the flip side is that her Husband was also given this challenge to be a good Husband and not be like this to her but he couldn’t overcome it either. Both of them failed and I feel bad for both of them.

    I agree the reporter is an idiot but she is not. She just didn’t know what to do. Her closes relatives seem to either be KJ or not very religious so where else was she to go but to her grandparents who seem to be very understanding about what she is going through. Maybe if she actually had a mother who was as understanding and willing to help her through this and still not push the KJ theme maybe she would of gone to her for help.

    Bottom line is, she needs help. She needs someone to show her that she can still try and find her way back to Hashem and not doing it KJ style. And she shouldn’t lose out on her daughter, especially when her daughter is going to be growing up in such a community where it only knows how to mentally abuse its women it seems.


    July 23, 2008 at 12:36 PM

  9. The hypocrasy that comes out of those people is unbelievable. They are the ones down at the whore houses but they can’t see their own wife naked.

    I also know someone in KJ that chose not to follow their lifestyle but lives amongst them. He is male. Is it different for the men?

    Honestly they sicken me as the carve their tenaments into the beautiful hillsides of Orange County.
    The money they get from the state for their mikvah bath house is a disgrace. So much for separation of church and state. They claim it on one end but use their voting block to get everything they want.
    But who are the fools? We are for not standing up and getting our needs met. We sit back and complain but do nothing about it.


    August 2, 2008 at 1:07 AM

  10. I read her story and felt very bad for her. Do I think she should get her child back? I think she and her x husband should go through family court and let the judge decide..this is how we do things in the USA! Reading her story I also felt she needed to get herself together before she can handle her child. I am not sure how much support she has from her family. Nothing is black and white here and it is really hard to judge..BUT..her child needs to always have contact with her mother and it should not be made difficult because the child will suffer the most. I think people seem to forget about whats best for the child. Good that the little one sees both sides of the coin.


    August 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM

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