Married and Navigating Jewish Life

Blogging about marriage and relationships

Followup to my previous BC post

with 3 comments

Which you can find Here

Jacob, posted the following and I felt it was worth responding to because perhaps people are reading here and thinking I am trying to force my opinion upon others, or condemning other people, or perhaps a lot of other negative things. I am not trying to do so. I am expressing my opinion about what I believe is wrong in the Orthadox circles, especially in Brooklyn. You are free to think otherwise, free to disagree, and always free to comment. However for the interest of mutal respect please do not seem, even if you did not mean to, to tell me I am wrong and I will not tell you that you are wrong. I am a big believer in that everyone has the right to have their opinion in everything, and I do mean everything.

Without further ado,

jacob Says:
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:17 pm e
Thanks for adding my blog to your links.

I agree and disagree with your post. If the reason that people are taking BC is because they went out 3 times and now want to get to know each other better, then I agree with you.

However, your logic extending ALL BC requests to the above reason is faulty. How do you know what really goes on?

Second, why the rush to have kids? Once the wife is preggers, she turns into a whole different person. She is sick for the first 3 months, then she has to pee every 5 minutes etc. Let the couple enjoy quality time without having the baby screaming in the backround. A few months is not too much.

“OR maybe go ahead and get to know one another for longer than a few months and wait on getting married?”

It is not possible to REALLY know someone until you live with them. Did you really know your wife that well before you married her?

Your idea of having couples wait longer to become married is flawed. What will they do in the meantime- look at each other and say “Gee, only 5 more months and then we can “be” together. Unless you do it the Chassidish way-not seeing each other for that period of time-in that case most definitely not getting to know each other.

Don’t tell me that you got married not to have sex. ‘Cause then you are so full of it. How long can a couple hold off without wanting to be with the other?

“You had free will to go ahead and get married now, you are not supposed to have free will to decide when and where you will have your children. Hashem is the only one that decides such things.”

I got news for you, buddy. Free will is still applicable.

In summary, I resent the fact that you pass judgment in that arrogant tone “Follow this way or you are going straight to hell”.

BTW, I personally did not use BC and now have a lovely young daughter.

And my reply

frombrooklyn Says:
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:07 am e
Jacob, sorry you think my post was sounding like “Follow this way or you are going straight to hell”

My post on my blog was specific to one particular group that is growing a lot in Brooklyn, and this more along the lines of the Yeshivish Community that is pushing to get married younger, faster, and generally tries and go to kollel route.

More than likely, I could of been more specific about who I was talking about more, however, I do feel that there are too many Jews in Brooklyn getting this heter for reasons which are not reasons at all for such a heter. The Ravs that allow this are doing a disservice to the entire Jewish Community. By allowing BC to be given out so ‘freely’ then you are telling couples they can get married, rely on BC, and spend care free time getting to know one another when they should of been given time before hand – and when I say that I enclose within those words all the reasons that are not medical, financial, or can cause problems shalom bayis.

And no, I don’t think getting pregnant immediately can cause problems with shalom bayis, because if they would, then there were other problems that caused it and the pregnancy only helped it come out.

Also, please remember, I have my opinion and you have yours. My opinion, from which I learned from my numerous Rebbeim, studies, and personal opinion of life is that you do not decide 3 things 1) life 2) money and 3) children. Hashem does. You have free will to change the mazal for all three things but in the end Hashem decides what you get. I am glad you have your own opinion and wish to express it, however do not tell me that I am wrong because my opinion is different and I will not tell you wrong because your opinion is different.

I do encourage all my readers to comment, and I throw this out to Lakewood Kollel Wife’s blog (link on side of this page) about using readers comments to post her own topics and I tip my hat to her for giving me the idea as well.

Remember, whatever your opinion about the issues that grip our Jewish fellows around the world remember that we need to be respectful of every single Jew’s opinion out there or else we tend to forget that we are supposed to be a nation together – not a nation that is engaged in tribal warfare.


Written by frombrooklyn

February 23, 2007 at 4:14 AM

3 Responses

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  1. Thank you for clarifying the matter. I appreciate that you took the time to respond to my comment.

    “By allowing BC to be given out so ‘freely’ then you are telling couples they can get married, rely on BC, and spend care free time getting to know one another when they should of been given time before hand.”

    Allow me to disagree once more. Our sheltered community does not know what birth control(other than condoms) is until they get married. People go on 3 dates and seal the deal that way because that is how the yeshivish world in general does. Not because the couple knows that they can spend more time together and not worry about kids.

    I don’t think one has to do with other i.e. BC with quick dating.

    Shabbat Shalom


    February 23, 2007 at 12:09 PM

  2. I actually am happy that you believe that our ‘sheltered’ communities do not know about other forms of BC beyond Condoms, however, I cannot believe that to be true. All my wife’s fellows HS friends knew what the pill was, the guys in my HS knew what the pill was (and we both went to Yeshivish schools), and that knowledge of the pill does not stop with just us, the majority of our friends knew about the different forms of BC before they ever got married and even thought of getting married.

    I don’t claim that BC = Fast Dating, that was not the intention, again, of my post. I am pointing out that with my own knowledge of our friends and talking to my Ravs + my opinion I do see that there are couples out there who seriously considered postponing the wedding by a few months or holding off shidduch dating because they were afraid they were not ready for children yet.

    That reason can be a great support to those who say you should get married because of all the reasons besides kids, however, the more people who ask for BC for those reasons the more its turning into a routine Heter instead of being given the proper consideration that it should be given.


    February 23, 2007 at 2:15 PM

  3. “I do see that there are couples out there who seriously considered postponing the wedding by a few months or holding off shidduch dating because they were afraid they were not ready for children yet.”

    Well, I’ve never heard of that (which doesn’t mean much) .

    Thanks again for responding to my comments.


    February 25, 2007 at 4:21 AM

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